new Space Marine Gameplay

Yeah, I've heard that xbox live is going to get some kind of espn stream, then I'll be completely without need for cable tv.

it already has an espn stream.

wes you asked about the primarchs

Fulgrim: daemon prince
Mortarion: daemon prince
Magnus: deamon prince
Angron: daemon prince
Night Haunter: dead, assassinated by M'Shen (callidus)
Lorgar: daemon prince
Perturabo: daemon prince on medrenngard
Alpharius: dead, killed by Gulliman (?)
Horus: dead, killed by the emporer

Sanguinius: dead, killed by Horus
Leman Russ: missing, promised to return
El'Jonson: missing, eventually in a chamber deep in the rock
Gulliman: in a stasis field, mortally wounded by fulgrim. There are rumours that his wounds are healing, slowly
Jagathai Khan: missing, probably dead. He followed some dark eldar into the webway
Vulkan: died at the Istvaan drop pod masssacre
Ferrus Manus: i'm quite sure that he is dead, Istvaan?
Rogal Dorn: died during a suicidal boarding action against a chaos flagship
Corax: dead, Istvaan.?

i copied this from another forum, so it could be wrong but is atleast a starting point. Most of the loyalist primarchs are dead.

That's dissapointing, I don't like going into a lore set feeling like the good stuff has already happened. I worry that I will love the books set from 30k-40k, and my interest will fall off as I get to the actual 40k arena.

first this http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/19/feeling-blue-blu-ray/ ie fuck blue ray

second there is still plenty going on.

thats like saying nothing after luke and vader was worth a shit because the good stuff already happened. lots of good things happened after those movies/books/period of the time.

or hell going back to the the first sith and saying well hes done, guess the rest of this story line will just disappoint me, and never learning about vader and luke or any of the others that followed.

Well, case in point: you saw 6 movies surrounding Vader.

I'm not saying nothing interesting or cool could happen, but 40k has the best good guys as non-functioning catatonics, the best bad guy is dead and anyone seemingly liable to pick up that mantle is so far gone that they have 'transcended' beyond care for the milky way galaxy.

That's what's really bothering me about the chaos set up I think. When venom and Eddie Brock became symbiotic there was still some Eddie Brock left (hated spiderman but eventually became neutral/good due to emotional appeal from pre-suit life). The chaos seduction seems too one sided to favor the daemon representative. If the primarchs knew they'd lose their person in the bargain entirely they wouldn't do it. Maybe they don't know it and that's part of the lore; fine, but again, that just takes away from the appeal of the 40k setting and places it on 100k (as an example).

40k the era (not the ideas, creativity, or game and game spinoffs) seems JV to 30k or any other future timeframe. It's Abaddon instead of Horus, space marines instead of primarchs, and grey knights instead of the emperor. I would read post vader star wars books, I just don't think they hold as much appeal as the vader years, which is why the movies focused on them. I think 40k chose its focus as a result of the games and the wide open arena for armies, not because it was the most interesting timeframe in the lore.

Thrym wrote:

Well, case in point: you saw 6 movies surrounding Vader.

I'm not saying nothing interesting or cool could happen, but 40k has the best good guys as non-functioning catatonics, the best bad guy is dead and anyone seemingly liable to pick up that mantle is so far gone that they have 'transcended' beyond care for the milky way galaxy.

That's what's really bothering me about the chaos set up I think. When venom and Eddie Brock became symbiotic there was still some Eddie Brock left (hated spiderman but eventually became neutral/good due to emotional appeal from pre-suit life). The chaos seduction seems too one sided to favor the daemon representative. If the primarchs knew they'd lose their person in the bargain entirely they wouldn't do it. Maybe they don't know it and that's part of the lore; fine, but again, that just takes away from the appeal of the 40k setting and places it on 100k (as an example).

40k the era (not the ideas, creativity, or game and game spinoffs) seems JV to 30k or any other future timeframe. It's Abaddon instead of Horus, space marines instead of primarchs, and grey knights instead of the emperor. I would read post vader star wars books, I just don't think they hold as much appeal as the vader years, which is why the movies focused on them. I think 40k chose its focus as a result of the games and the wide open arena for armies, not because it was the most interesting timeframe in the lore.

the problem here is you are just assuming alot with very littl info. I have read alot of the starwars books for example and enjoyed all them, some of them much more than the 6 movies.

Yes many of the few characters you know anything about are dead or transdended, but they have been replaced with new heros/villians. Some arguably more powerful then they primarchs.

Lord Kaldor Draig supreme Grandmaster of the Grey knights single handedly turned mortitorian (an asended primarch, now daemon prince) into his bitch.

Mephiston aka Lord of Death Cheif Librarian of the Blood Angels, Mastered the black rage, is currently one of the strongest space marines alive. Mephiston is quite capable of standing toe to toe with any daemon prince

Quote :

Mephiston was once Brother Calistarius, a librarian of exceptional valour and strenght of character. yet they Black rage cares not for the nobilit of the soul, nor the deeds of the flesh. While Calistarius fought before the walls of Hades Hive, during the Second war for Armaggedon, the curse of Sangunis(the black rage) stole upon him. Inducted into the Death Company , Calistarius took part in the final assault on the Ecclesorium building, and was one of the many crushed when the building collasped in a shower of debris.

For seven days and seven nights Calistarius lay entombed, his fevered mind teetering n the dge of madness and his broken body of the verge of death. Yet Calistarius did not succumb. Through sheer force of will he confronted the uncontrollable rage that burned through his mangled form. With supreme effort, Calistanrius cast out the Black rage and in so doing, became something far more than eh had been before. At midnight on the seventh day he burst free from his rocky prison, reborn as Mephiston, lord of death.

Marneus Augutus Calgar Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, is a master tactian and true badass.

Chaos Space Marine Codex http://www.scribd.com/doc/14056572/Codex-Chaos-Space-Marines-4E

also remember Chaos is a problem but is far from the only problem in the imperium. You may not care about the other threats but they are very real and very serious, and in many ways more potent threats than chaos.

Lol, exactly my point: in 40k the biggest threat isn't the life altering primeval essence of mankind's most inert flaws...it's the JV squad.

Sorry man, don't take it personal. I see a lot of merit in the lore and the decisions based on making a multitude of armies available for table top, or for pen and paper small story archs. I'm sure the grey knight guy is cool, but how can he possibly compare to a primarch? However he got to be more powerful (if that's the case) couldn't a primarch have done the same thing and been more powerful? Wasn't he created via a primarch's genes? If he mutated wouldn't a mutated primarch be more powerful?

To me it's a lul in the progression of the story of the universe, which makes it open ended for players to 'shape' it in their heads. Cool, but I'd rather read about before and after. We all have our fanboy niches, just don't take my objective critique as saying it's worthless. It's just not what I think it could be.

its not really left open for players to shape in their heads. It is a continuing story line that is updated every few years as the game and story progresses.

10k years have past since the heresy the marines and tatics armor psychic abilities have all evolved. Space marines are born normal people and then geneticly altered using the gene seed into space marines. So the possiability for a superior being to come about exist. Just like it does today, todays greatest quarter back will be outdone eventually. Draigo is an example of that.

Also its not like it is the imperium fighting everyone. its everyone fighting everyone. orcs and nids are as much a threat to each other as they are to chaos or the imperium. Chaos may be the strongest most bad ass 1v1 (comparing standard troops) but they dont have the numbers out side of the warp that everyone else does. Also chaos is constantly fighting amongst itself. Occasionally it will team up and push out and is truely devasting but it normaly turns on its self. if you read abddons entry in the chaos codex above, it makes mention that if h every truely unites the forces of chaos the imperium is likely to fall.

more info

Quote :

The Dominion of Fire
During the middle of the 38th millennium, Angron and fifty thousand Khorne Berzerkers slaughtered their way through Imperial space for over two centuries. This incident became known as the Dominion of Fire. The wars and rebellions the forces of Khorne sparked ravaged over seventy sectors. In the end it took four Space Marine chapters, two Titan legions and more than thirty Imperial Guard regiments to retake what the Imperium had lost. Ninety percent of the area have since been recovered by the forces of Mankind.3

something we talked about the other night. The primarchs are still active and still strike out. ist 2k years later and the imperium still has not recovered all what Angron took in 200 years.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daemon_Prince
has links to several of the primarchs and a few others u dont know.

Updated/changed lore and open battle campaigns for conflict make sense for a locus of the table top game.

What also makes sense is you having retribution and/or chaos expansion DLed by the time I get home.

The problem I have with making everything epicly epic is that eventually, it has to be outdone to be interesting. There has to be some excitement at the beginning and conflict - no one wants to play an imperial guard paper pusher. There should be a feeling of power and overcoming difficult odds.

But start small, and grow from there. 30K did have more primarchs running around, but 40K has its badasses as well. Marneus Calgar is still running around. Long forgotten demons are still entombed and waiting to be released to wreak havoc. The struggle is what makes it exciting and interesting to me.

If a demon shows up and we have to fight it, I don't want to have a PC just show up and make it his bitch. It shouldbe a hard fight.

I'll admit I am pretty new to 40K. I've played DoW I, II, played a little valley of the skulls, and read some books. My most memorable moment isn't Ragnar fighting one of the thousand sons(I cant remember his name) from Space Wolves, or The Blood Ravens fighting anything from DoW II.

Its Constantine going apeshit:

Quote :

Moving in unision the remaining storm troopers approach Constatine guns ready.
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" Constatine screams in prayer to chaos god Korne as his skin melts away revieling a hideously deformed skull. Time stands still as he transforms from the inquistorial agent into a skeletal monster. Blood flows freely from empty eye sockets intricate patterns spiral in chaotic patterns across his frame. Two of the storm troopers fall dead at his feet, exsaguinated before they reach the floor their blood pooling around Constatine's feet. "Foolish men now you will know the power of Korne, of Chaos" he reaches down ripping the spines from the fallen troopers forming thim with his will into one gigantic sword.

One Khornite freaking out and trying to kill everyone. Hardly epicly epic, but there was a threat that had potential of killing us. It wasn't an easy fight, but not impossible either. There was betrayal, danger, and victory - on a pretty small scale - but it will always be memorable to me and will remember it fondly.

The lictor coming at us was pretty damn cool too.

First things first: play dawn of war II with us. Been way to long since we've seen u in game with us!

Second, I totally agree with the sentiment of everything can't be epicly epic. Characters like palpatine and the emperor drive me insane because writers won't touch on their personalized story cause they've grown too big to make sense. I was reading some of the notes about kaldor and the review on the codex and how utterly over the top they had made him, doing all sorts of shit in the warp that makes him Jesus Marine.

My view isn't that 40k the era needs to be more epic. I just think 30k was more epic than it. 40k is JV to a 30k/future varsity. Orks aren't pushovers, but they're JV compared to other 'villians.'

I also don't blame them for choosing to land on this era for their players' setting. I'm not sure, as I don't know a lot about the table top armies, but I would assume someone running the emperor or Horus in their army would be a bit too epicly epic. It sets the stage for the player to 'rise' as a significant force in the universe. It's just not AS interesting a time to read about IMO.

The only things I truly don't like about the lore that I've seen so far are: orks seem easily more prone to being wiped out and I have trouble suspending disbelief on their ability to keep up technologically. And then I just don't personally like how much of the human 'persona' is lost when they succumb to chaos. I get that not everyone can control it and some people will become mindless spore-like creatures, but losing themselves to chaos so absolute pretty much makes them obsolete IMO. It's like a dog bargaining to become a cat, rather than to become a stronger dog.

I can agree(as to my knowledge) that 30K is more epic than 40K - even if specific characters in 40K may be more powerful than 30K characters. There were more "Darth Vaders" "Luke Skywalkers" and "Yodas" in 30K - with all the primarchs running around. The Horus Heresy was a epic time with shifting allegiances, drama, infighting, etc - whereas in 40K its (mostly) generally accepted by the imperium that everything is "for the emperor"

Going with a football analogy for Orks vs Marines JV/Varsity.

The Marine team would have a normal 11 man offense. The Ork team would have 100 or more players on D, 10 covering each receiver, 40 rushing the QB, and 10 picking their noses or fighting amongst themselves. The marines are obviously better equipped, better stock - but each one has to contend with much much more.

The Orks have strength in numbers, but can definitely grow stronger as evidenced by a warboss than can defeat a demon. Its a huge green tidal wave instead of a guided surgical strike.

So, as far as reading, they don't have the Gravitas that a chaos or Eldar fight would. Each death means little.

They make excellent MMORPG enemies because it doesn't take 200 years+ to become elite, or require genetic augmentation, or anything else. They just grow, like a cancer. Their presence can easily be explained anywhere, as a single spore can grow to a colony. They can lie dormant for years.

Addressing the technology - there is a specific mysticism to it that is different, but fun. You can't take them too seriously like Marines or Chaos. They believe it works, so it does. Shootas in the hands of others jam, and techpriests have taken apart weapons - can't understand how they work - they shouldn't.

"Red goes fasta"


Rambling again, oh well. I think some of whats happening is Joe and I see you call Orks JV and think thats a bad thing. Maybe its not in your opinion, IDK. I think both a sea of green coming at you as well as a Primarch both have their very own asshole pucker factor.

Edit: I will check and see if I can get a cheap DoW 2 disk and give it a shot.

Quote :

The Horus Heresy was a epic time with shifting allegiances, drama, infighting, etc - whereas in 40K its (mostly) generally accepted by the imperium that everything is "for the emperor"

All of the above still exist. The Inqusition is full of secrets, cults, infighting, betrayal, radicals, traditionalist, assassinations, lies, murder, cheats, drama, allegiances, genocide than anything else i have ever heard about, and its all for the good of mankind, and for the emperor.

40k is a much darker dreadful world of cloak and dagger than 30k. While everything appears great and honky dorry at first glance on deeper inspection you realize that various loyal space marine chapters have and will war with each other. Certain chapters abbhor the inqustion and are constantly fighting them.

30k was a great time for the imperium pre heresy. Mankind was being reunited and growing in strenght, new civilazations of lose humans and technology was being recovered daily.

All of that is lost now.. Every update chaos and the hords of destruction push the imperium back a little further. Whole chapters and worlds are going awol and joining with chaos or turning their backs on the rest of the imperium in hopes of being over looked.

I agree Joe, there is as much if not more cloak and dagger subterfuge in 40k. That allows more windows of opportunity for players to incorporate their persona/army/character. It also loses its importance as it becomes more watered down. The 'epic' appeal is the scale to which the event changes the status quo. Palpatine as the chancellor all along is a bigger deal than if he just was some guy out of nowhere. The same with vader having been a Jedi and not some random dude. 40k's status quo is constant deception of lesser characters, which makes each one individually less important.

30k is like WWII, and 40k is the cold war. The cold war was very interesting and gave rise to 'villains' like Khrushchev and Castro. Those two will go down in history, but they are not Stalin, and they are not Hitler. Space marines aren't primarchs. Kaldor isn't sanguinius, or the emperor. Abaddon isn't Horus.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Bringer

enter necrons. the strong power foes and players you want exist they just arent your beloved chaos.

Thiazi wrote:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Bringer

enter necrons. the strong power foes and players you want exist they just arent your beloved chaos.

Lol, you are struggling in a fanboy cold sweat.

-the c'tan are trying to sever the connection with the warp since chaos is their real threat
-the necrons are killed by space marines and eldar just the same
-they are chaos regurgitated chaos lore

Squabbling gods that lay dormant, bargains that came at too high a price, warriors that lose themselves and their persona. Where have I heard that before? You're too entrenched to see them feeding you the same idea a second time, and even that idea fears the first idea (chaos).

I don't want 40k to be any different than it is, fellas. I just was surprised to find the focus was on the cold war and not WWII. It makes sense to me for the table top, which is their bread and butter; I'm just more interested in the books than the table top.

Thrym wrote:

Thiazi wrote:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Bringer

enter necrons. the strong power foes and players you want exist they just arent your beloved chaos.

Lol, you are struggling in a fanboy cold sweat.

-the c'tan are trying to sever the connection with the warp since chaos is their real threat
-the necrons are killed by space marines and eldar just the same
-they are chaos regurgitated chaos lore

Squabbling gods that lay dormant, bargains that came at too high a price, warriors that lose themselves and their persona. Where have I heard that before? You're too entrenched to see them feeding you the same idea a second time, and even that idea fears the first idea (chaos).

I don't want 40k to be any different than it is, fellas. I just was surprised to find the focus was on the cold war and not WWII. It makes sense to me for the table top, which is their bread and butter; I'm just more interested in the books than the table top.

the ctan existed before the warp.
the warp is the threat not chaos the ctan can not survive in the warp.
chaos's greatest champions are killed by space marines, the Night bringer and the Ctan have not been killed.
The ctans troops have been killed, but they are not ctan.
they were only dormat because they conquored everything and ran out of souls to eat.

I got to level 8 in horde mode and am still not hating DoW II. A little passive for me, but still finding it entertaining. Think my emergence into the world of 40k is helping keep my interest.

FYI, I will be out of town until Wednesday night for the deftones concert.

Thiazi wrote:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-1718-airship-pirate-cutlass-latex.aspx

Damn, they straight ripped off the space marines, or is this pirate idea from 40k an I just haven't heard about it yet?

rip off. Games workshop (owner of the space marines) is very very very protective of its IP so when companys want to make GW related merchandise like the above sword they just give it some absurd name. Space marines become "heavily armored guy with big guns from the future" or something else stupid.

However chainswords have existed in other sci fi stories. Someone posted a comic clip from an old 1970s (pre GW) dr who comic that have a chainsword in it on another forum.